The Religion Distinction; G-d is not a religion

Authors

One of the leading arguments against the existence of G-d from the scientific community is that there is no such thing as the “supernatural”. However, since the greatest scientists of our times have openly admitted that there are many aspects to our world and universe that are beyond human understanding, they are referring to something beyond nature. Therefore, the incomprehensible part of nature is by definition, “supernatural”.

So, it seems that we are not really arguing whether there is a G-d or not; but we are debating the way people characterize Him. Hence, this dispute boils down to two opposing schools of thought: first, that G-d caused the world to come into being in some unknown fashion over a period of billions of years, allowed the people to evolve from apes and said in effect, “Do what you will, it’s your world, you only get one chance; make the best of it.” Second, that God made the Heavens and the Earth in six days from nothing, formed the first man from the earth, breathed life into him, separated the first woman from him and told them to “be fruitful and multiply.” He then set up the first rule of obedience as a condition for living forever in paradise.

This second version is what Dawkins summarily dismisses as “delusional”. In other words, either G-d removed himself from the world and is watching for entertainment value or the world is one with Him and He is involved with us every moment continuously giving us our life force and providing challenges to strengthen us. According to Dawkins, the G-d of Israel is obsessive, maniacal and cruel because he demands worship and obedience in exchange for happiness, contentment and eternal life. However, the stark truth is that real cruelty is being aloof and indifferent to the plight of others. Thus Dawkins apparently prefers the unsympathetic detached god watching the show from a comfortable distance rather than be subservient to the One that is in control of all things. 

Moreover, it seems that to the confirmed atheist there is no distinction between G-d and religion. Thus they apparently believe that if they are able to refute the abuses committed by fanatics in the name of religion, they can conclude that G-d does not exist. Consequently, we must make clear the distinction between G-d and religion. First of all, G-d never said, “Let there be religion.” He set up a set of laws and an organizational structure, whereby the leader delegates certain responsibilities to subordinates. Thus, following the tenets of a civilized society, which depends on the rule of law for its survival, is not religion; it’s common sense.

Additionally, there were many varieties of religious worship of stones, trees, the sun, the moon, statues, and mythical gods throughout the ages that predated and came after the start of Judaism at Mount Sinai; but those were all man-made concoctions. If you look at the societies that have long since been dead and gone, you will not find kindness or ethical thought as the rule of law. But, the Jewish culture continues to this day, unchanged as to the source of its beliefs and if you look there you will find kindness to the extent that if one person borrows money from another, the lender says, “Thank you for the opportunity”, gives over the money without charging any interest and never asks the borrower to repay for fear of embarrassing him. This behavior is not religion; this is the rule of Jewish law as handed down from the Torah. Similarly, the famous sayings “Love your fellow as yourself” and “Do not do to others what you hate being done to you” are not religion; they are the law.

7 Comments

Comments RSS
  1. cuthulan

    Hi Moshe , you have an interesting blog, I’ll try and pop by more often.
    As for religion , I’m an atheist struggling with gnostasisim ,i believe there is more to life than science BUT I have NO DOUBT that peronalised deities or old men in the sky type gods do NOT exist and are INVENTIONS of men with greed in thiers hearts and sword in thier hands .
    Abrahamic monotheism in all its forms has been a disaster for mankind , its just original fascism,it has destroyed ancient knowledge , promoted bigotry , ignorance and intolerance and rascism.Today Jews , Christians and Muslims all hate each other and believe that they need to end the world ,to bring thier god to rule Earth!! a good plot for Conan the barbarian but a really bad idea for a religion! Just look at the “holy land”!Worse still its claims of original devine wisdom are lies, they are just ripped off and badly re-written ancient pagan knowledge…

    “Additionally, there were many varieties of religious worship of stones, trees, the sun, the moon, statues, and mythical gods throughout the ages that predated and came after the start of Judaism at Mount Sinai; but those were all man-made concoctions.”

    Sorry but IMHO the above statement is nonsense
    Judaism was invented by Cyrus the Great ,its Egyptian Set worship converted to Zoroatsrianism and they where sent off to build a buffer state for the Persian Empire.

    Christianity was invented by Constantine , its book was the New Testamonies its god Hesus Krishna was voted into existance 161 to 157 votes at the 1st council of nicene,it had nothing to do with Judaism. He was uniting his Western and Eastern Roman empires , Druidic Hesus and Hindu Krishna combined .
    Messianic Judaism and the BI-BLE(2 books or 2 bulls) was a later Byzantine invention

    Islam was Quyrsh moonworship converted to messianic Judaism , around the same time the Vatican bible was being written(600AD). Just another messianic Judaism power block flexing its muscles

    Original monotheism is Egyptian sun worship or Persian Zoroastrianism,and these religious ideologies where a lot less likely to have been invented by a single person or power block!
    I mean no offence to your beliefs ,many people believe many different and strange things ,but it is thier actions that count ,if you do good deeds ,it is irrelevant what you believe , some people believe god is an alien , no harm in that idea either …and i agree god is not a religion

    • moshesharon

      Thank you for your input, Cuthullan. Your historical facts are strange to me, but in all fairness I cannot debunk your theories of origins of various belief systems including Judaism without knowing the source of your information. So if you could cite your sources about the origins of Judaism specifically, I’d like to check them out and offer a response. I do agree that it’s a person actions that count. The basic tenet of Jewish life is about action and behavior. We are a nation of laws that govern how we carry out every facet of our lives and how we interact. We are also a nation that desire’s peace above everything, so notwithstanding that we defend ourselves in an organized fashion to insure that we would never again suffer another holocaust, we hate no-one. We also have no personal deities and no image of G-d. That is against our prime directive. I do hope to continue this discussion.

  2. cuthulan

    Thank you Moshe for being openned minded on such a subject which must be close to you.
    As i said a mean no offence to people who are good and fair in there actions. I find good people can believe a lot of strange things ,but still be good,so obviously the belief itself is irrelevent to a great extent.
    I have good Jewish friends ,who actually consider themselves secular, even an ex-girlfriend. I also have many friends that consider themselves muslim or christian, so long as they are good people , all I ask is that they be the best example of Islam or Christianity and i will be the best atheist I can and I think the world will be better for us all being here.
    I was brought up by my Grandfather who fought in WWII with the Argyles(Scottish regiment) my step mother is Chinese and my uncle was in a Japanese POW camp, 10 million Chinese where put in these camps 56 survived!! Holocaust should NOT be a racial monopoly, in my book!
    For your general consumption here is a blog on the roots of Druidic knowledge , that seem to go back at least 18,000 years and maybe even longer,it also touches on the birth of Buddhism and Hinduism .

    We had our Law codes as well , in very ancient times
    There is, however, one area where scholars have found material that is clearly old. A number of legal terms have been shown to have originated in the period before the Celtic Languages split up because they are preserved in both Old Irish and in the Welsh legal texts.

    here are my blogs on the invention of Judaism.

    I actually stumbled on this while researching the origins of the Celtic people of all things!!We had our own EXODUS!

    For a more indepth view

    Here is my blog on the invention of Christianity, I was actually on a history channel forum discussing this blog…and its still stands the test!

    Here is my blog on the invention of Islam

    I posted these blogs a while ago ,actually during some Middle East strife , so some of the language is a bit “emotional”! I have been meaning to update the posts , just a bit short on time…
    Hope you find these interesting and I wish you and your god all the best
    Violence breeds violence, education breeds understanding
    Peace to everyone

    • moshesharon

      I viewed your page on the origin of Judaism and I found it difficult to follow. I also didn’t find any scholarly references as sources of your information. Our origins as a nation are clear to us and part of our belief system, so there is no point to arguing over it. Although you state you meant no offense your historical theories about the invention of Judaism is antithetical to our entire belief system and belittles what we are about, although I don’t perceive any malice on your part; just a misguided need to explain the existence of Judaism from an atheistic perspective. However, the truth is that there is no logical explanation for the existence of the Jewish people. We are a nation that retained its national identity through 2,000 years of exile from our land and spread out all over the world. Our culture remained virtually unchanged in it’s language and traditions despite that Jewish communities were separated with no means of communication.

      Regarding, the holocaust, my parents were survivors and my grand parents were buried in the ovens at Auschwitz. I am not required to mention the atrocities that the Japanese committed against the Chinese or the Cambodian holocaust under the Pol Pot regime every time I talk about what happened to my family. The Jewish people have every right to remind the world of the barbarism and cruelty of the German Nazis and establish memorials and museums and organize to insure that this would never happen again. Likewise, the Chinese, Cambodians and all other nations that suffered their holocausts have the right to deal with the aftermath and prevention in their own way. Anyone who wants to tell me that as a Jew I should not speak of and publicize the Jewish holocaust because other nations also suffered can kiss my Jewish a$$! Furthermore, the Jews are still being persecuted and pursued and there is a real danger of another attempt at perpetrating another holocaust coming from Iran and many other Muslim nations with people from all over the world showing antisemitic solidarity.

  3. cuthulan

    Ultimately that is my probelm with Abrahamic monotheists(Jewish , Christian and Muslim), they suffer from cultural superiority!
    They therefore know nothing about other peoples cultures and suprisingly little about the reality of thier own!
    You know your god is man made when he hates all the same people you do!
    A monotheist is just an atheist who believes in an extra god, if you can tell me why you do not believe in the other gods ,you have also just explained why I do not believe in yours
    But you have every right to believe what you will and I will defend that right , so long as it does not involved murder rape or theft!

    • moshesharon

      And who are you to sit in judgment of the world? I need your permission to believe in G-d? Do you pray to yourself?

  4. moshesharon

    Cuthulan: Sorry I meant no personal offence ,thank you for the tolerance and understanding

    Moshe: I’m not offended. I’ve been dealing with people like you my whole life. Whining about how the evil Jews are ruining the world and blaming us for your failures in life.

    Cuthulan: You say “No scholarly comment” well ,as an atheist ,my criteria was archelogoy ,DNA and first hand or oldest texts ,scientific things permissable in a court of law! Plenty of scholars where involved if you check ,including a lot of jewish ones! However I think I give a very good explaination for the Jewish culture,if you have any factualy corrections please let me know ,I know its not perfect or complete but I think its correct.

    Moshe: I asked you to quote your sources with a citation of published scholarly work. So far you have not done that. So far you demonstrate total ignorance of Jewish culture by what you have posted.

    Cuthulan: Why do you think your ancient sky god belief systems are any better than other peoples? why do you feel more worthy and more oppressed than say a Hopi Indian ?That sounds like religious fascism to me.

    Moshe: This is a perfect example of your ignorance of Judaism. We don’t feel more worthy than anyone. In our community, humility is prized as the greatest positive human quality. Our liturgy contains the Divine statement: “My house shall be a House of prayer for all the nations.” The native American tribes are actually a highly sophisticated spiritual people deserving of great respect. Their core belief systems are monotheistic because they believe in a “Great Spirit” that is beyond nature and in control of all things. Jews actually have a lot in common with them even if few people are aware of this. The only religious fascism demonstrated here is your anti-religion rhetoric.

    Cuthulan: Ideologies can spread and take hold and are not effected by genetic or cultrural diversion ,no mystery in that!!please read my blog on Druidic , Hindu and Buddhist religious connections and the spread of the language and culture, Sanskrit in India to Gaelic in Western europe ,even through roman conquests and forced exoduses,it is still spoken today in Scotland, Ireland and in Wales and small communities globally as well as canadian and native american tribes!!

    Moshe: That’s all very interesting, but not relevant to this discussion.

    Cuthulan: BUT I certainly mean no personal offence ,as I said people can believe the strangest things and still can be good people, that includes myself! Your culture is no more or less important than mine,I believe in cultural diveristy as much as bio diversity ,both are good.

    Moshe: No one ever said that our culture is more important than yours, whatever that is. You professed belief in cultural diversity seems contradictory to your apparent intolerance toward Judaism and other theistic cultures.

    Cuthulan: As for the Jewish holocaust in germany/poland/yugoslavia etc ,which also involved a lot of non-jewish “undesirables” , my grandfather FOUGHT THE NAZIS!!

    Moshe: I’m glad your grandfather fought the Nazi’s. You should be proud of him, but that is irrelevant. At least you knew you grandfather. The German Nazis murdered mine before I was born and robbed me of that privilege. I wonder, what’s it like to have a grandpa?

    Cuthulan: Some Israelli Prime ministers like Yitzak Shamir did not! A lot of jewish zionists also fought for nazi germany,(as did some celts and many others),so less of the “guilt trip” with me ,my family fought them!!

    Moshe: Who said you should feel guilty about the Jewish Holocaust? What’s behind your defensiveness?

    Cuthulan: A lot of Abrahamic monotheist “Zionists” where just as responsible for the deaths as the nazis!..and others did a lot less to stop it because it suited thier political/religious plans. Germans where not bad people , nazism and race supremecy was evil ,it still is today!

    Moshe: That’s a serious accusation to say the Jews where just as responsible for Jewish deaths as the Nazis. That is classic antisemitic garbage that comes from those who hate Jews with a passion. Yet you tell me that you mean no offense, but you continue with making offensive remarks. That’s very interesting.

    Cuthulan: Get over it ,my family has ,BUT I agree holocausts should not be forgotten… or misrepresented or monopolised!

    Moshe: Your remarks are asinine. It seems that the only one who can’t get over the Holocaust is you. What exactly did your family “get over?” The only one misrepresenting the Holocaust is you. How does one monopolize the Holocaust? As I said, the surviving members of every ethnicity that fell victim to ethnic cleansing has the absolute right to publicize their victimization and take steps to preemptively strike against any countries that are attempts to repeat history. For example, when the leader of Iran states that his country is planning to cleanse Israel of all Jews we have the absolute right and the obligation to take whatever action is necessary to prevent that.

    Cuthulan: The jewish culture is just as likely to fall for those “venegence” beliefs as the germans did after WWI! So is the celtic culture or any other! People like yourself and myself should be making sure this does not happen again….. TOO ANYONE!!

    Moshe: The Jewish are here to stay for ever. Get use to it. We are not about vengeance, we are about protecting ourselves and taking out the murdering reprobates who want to kill us.

    Cuthulan: As a culture Jews are not bad people ,its those that would believe some cultural and “god given” superiority that is the problem, that would be the same in any race or culture. This in my book is as bad as nazi idelogy!It leads to people believing absurdities ,then committing atrocities.

    Moshe: Jews have been around for 3,500 years with exactly the same beliefs. The only atrocities that we have experienced as a people are the ones committed against us. And don’t bother me with any nonsense about so called “atrocities” against the “Palestinians.” Anyone who isn’t brain dead knows the truth about Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

    Here is a quote from a hero of mine Albert Eistein, the renowned scientist, who declined an invitation to become Israel’s second president, rejected the idea that the Jews are God’s chosen people. “For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions,” he said. “And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people.” And he added: “As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups,… I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.”

    Moshe: I agree also, except for the “Childish superstitions.” However, he did recant that later on because when he said that he has a deep affinity with the Jewish mentality, it contradicts his characterization of childish superstition. You should read all his other quotes about G-d and the mysterious wonders of the universe that are beyond even his comprehension. You will find that Einstein was by far not an atheist as you may believe. Maybe you need to find another hero.

    Cuthulan: I agree ,and I could replace jewish with celtic and happily repeat that statement!

    Moshe: So you are an equal opportunity hater, equally intolerant of all theistic cultures.

    Cuthulan: I do not think Jews are being presecuted anymore or less than other people , one of my best friends is an Iranian Jewess, there are plenty of jews living in Iran unpersecuted!! Stop listening to paranoid propaganda Anti-semitic solidarity please stop drinking the Kool aid!! Israel is the problem , yet again Abrahamic monotheism raising its ugly head!

    Moshe: Spoken like a true blue antisemite. You remind me of the scorpion who plunges its stinger and then apologizes saying, “I don’t mean any offense. It’s my nature.”

    Cuthulan: As for gods chosen land , well sorry I’m an atheist and I agree with Einstein, Israel is a childish idea and its just causing bloodshed and misery and threatening the end of the world! Thanks to Abrahamic monotheism “end of days” religious philisophy. This effects everybody Abrahamic monotheist ,atheist ,Buddhist whatever…. You should be smart like Einstein and move to Birobodjan! The world would thank you!

    Moshe: Einstein settled in New Jersey and taught in Princeton. I like living in Florida. But thanks for the suggestion. You can spend the rest of your miserable life blaming the Jews for all of the troubles of the world and no body will care, least of all me and the rest of the Jewish world.

    Cuthulan: A documentary film, L’Chayim, Comrade Stalin! on Stalin’s creation of the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and its partial settlement by thousands of Russian and Yiddish-speaking Jews was released in 2003. As well as relating the history of the creation of the proposed Jewish homeland, the film features scenes of life in contemporary Birobidzhan and interviews with Jewish residents.
    Far from Jews being forcibly exiled to Birobidjan, there were extensive worldwide efforts to promote this Soviet Jewish homeland project, including ‘Ambidjan’, the American Birobidjan Committee, whose officials included Albert Einstein and the prominent American Jewish author B.Z. Goldberg. According to the NY Times, Stalin established the city to protect secular Jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birobidjan

    Moshe: And the relevance of this is. . .(?)

    Cuthulan: What was the problem with life in Palestine anyway? …apart from the British should of given it back to the Palestinians…YES Palestians they do exist!

    Moshe: I am not aware of any recognized national identity called “Palestinians.” Perhaps you could enlighten us with their national history prior to 1967?

    Cuthulan: My grandfather was a soldier during the Mandate of Palestine , he was nearly killed by jewish terrorists after he defeated the nazis …

    Moshe: So your grandfather was part of the British occupation in Israel since they took it from the Turks in 1917? Now I’m beginning to understand your hatred of Jews. Your grandfather defeated the Nazis? You must think he had superhuman powers.

    Cuthulan: the Jewish terrorists fought for the nazis!

    Moshe: More antisemitic rubbish. There never was any such thing as “Jewish terrorists.” More antisemitic blood libel.

    Cuthulan: But I am sure your god will figure that one out and excuse this behaviour.

    Moshe: And you claimed to be an atheist. LOL

    Cuthulan: At that time Jews could live in Palestine , so could christians and muslims ,and atheits etc ,what was the problem,apart from British rule?

    Moshe: I don’t really know first hand I wasn’t there. But I do know that Christians and Muslim do live in Israel with the Jews and they have the same rights as Israeli citizens.

    Cuthulan: Please do not tell me it has to do with a sky god that collects foreskins and does real estate deals ,and whose stories are traceble ancient myths ,just like everybody elses sky gods!Yes your religion is no different from anybody elses,its cultural spread is no mystery!

    Moshe: Okay I won’t tell you.

    Cuthulan: Its the 21st century AD ,not the 21st century BC! Get with the times Its fine to believe these things BUT you cannot inflict these personal/cultural beliefs on unwilling people ! That is just as bad as the christian crusades or islamic expansionism….ALL bloodthirsty Abrahamic monotheists btw!!! all using god as an excuse to commit acts of atrocity!!Some things never change!
    This is causing resentment NOT anti-semitism btw palestinians are 100% semitic

    Moshe: Are you foaming at the mouth too? You started off saying that you thought that my blog was interesting. What’s up with that?

    Cuthulan: I do not see the “gods an alien” squad slaughtering and removing indigenous people from thier country to make way for gods landing pad ,all because they believe they have front row tickets and a VIP pass!

    Moshe: Well I’m glad you got that all that vitriol off your chest. I’d hate to see you go postal near a synagogue, G-d forbid. I hope you feel better now, because what I going to write next will really set you off. Israel is Jewish land because G-d gave it to us. Yes we believe that we are the chosen people because G-d said, “I am the Lord your G-d who took you out of Egypt from the house of slavery.” To whom do think he was referring, the Arabs? But we were chosen to be the example not the exception of how to behave. True we didn’t get it right and we are still in exile as it goes, but G-d gave us plenty of time to re-adjust our thinking and be the best that we can be. Yes we have our beliefs and you have yours. I don’t resent you for being an atheist. I’m sure that oblivion is a restful place to be after you die. However, it seems to me that you would do yourself a lot more good to take responsibility for your failures rather than blaming the Jews for everything that doesn’t work in your life.

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: